In fact, Kobach's demeanor was such that one of the Mrs. Turks got so fed up with the shouting, and the gesturing, and the fast talking that she turned the TV off after about 15 minutes.
But fortunately, there are multiple Turks and we came together to assemble this recap. This is a long post, so you may want to get a cup of coffee. (Not you Kris.)
Values
The first question (there were no opening statements) was about what three values each candidate held dear. Kobach's answer?
National Security
Tax cuts
Moral values
While tax cuts are an interesting value, the answer really didn't produce anything new, though it did give Kobach a chance to name drop a reference to Iran's Shahab-3 missile and how we need a space-based missile defense system to defend against it. Considering the Shahab-3 has only a 1,300 kilometer range, we have some time, since it is 10,198 kilometers between Tehran, Iran, and Washington, DC.
Of course, some people think we should focus on more immediate threats, like nuclear weapons smuggled in via unchecked containers, but you know Kris, he likes to aim high.
Iraq
"We were right to invade Iraq when we did" even though no WMDs were found, says Kobach. He touts the flypaper theory, claiming we're fighting terrorists in Iraq instead of here. We've heard a good analogy for that theory: creating a "really dirty hospital" so "we can fight the germs there, not in the other hospitals" -- forgetting that there isn't a finite number of germs...or terrorists...and that the invasion only served to incite more Muslims to violence, not peace.
Kobach says Moore doesn't go far enough in giving our troops the equipment they need, citing Moore's votes against "bunker busting" nuclear weapons. Yes, because the solution to our Iraq problem is nuclear weapons. (Ironic since nuclear weapons -- or at least the supposed threat of them -- are the cause of our Iraq problem.)
Education
Kobach says he wants to eliminate the federal education mandates, but keep the money flowing. Kobach claims Moore had a chance to vote to lift mandates, but he voted no.
Guess what: So did a majority of Congress.
The amendment Kobach cites sought to strike the requirement for annual state reading and math tests for grades 3 through 8 and retain current law for state assessments -- gutting the accountability standards of No Child Left Behind. That is why it was voted down.
So in the end, Kobach opposes accountability for federal spending, preferring to do what Republicans used to criticize liberals for: throwing money at the problem with no accountability for how it is used.
Taxes
"I will not raise taxes on any sector of the American public," says Kobach.
Poor Lilly. A huge debt is her reward.
Social Security
Kobach says he is against cutting benefits or increasing Social Security taxes. "If you are against those things, you have to find a better way to get a greater return on your investment," he says.
As a solution, Kobach advocates a plan where "less than half" of Social Security benefits go into private accounts. He then claims that the only way to avoid Social Security going into deficit is private accounts, trying to mislead voters since the return on investment for individuals in their private accounts would do nothing to lengthen the overall solvency of Social Security (unless the remaining standard benefits are cut.)
Kobach also has no answer for the multi-trillion dollar transition costs involved in even partially privatized accounts. In fact, he doesn''t even mention those costs.
Kobach again trots out the "Social Security only gets a 2% return" canard, ignoring that -- unlike an investment -- Social Security is essentially a lifetime annuity that is inflation adjusted, making comparisons with regular retirement accounts specious at best.
Finally, Kobach claims that Moore flip-flopped on this issue, but again his evidence is faulty. He cites a CQ story about Moore supporting investing overall trust funds in the market -- not private accounts -- and a Kansas City Star column by conservative writer Thomas McClanahan which says Moore wasn't opposed to private accounts "in concept."
The Turks aren't opposed to getting a million dollars "in concept" but if that money came from a bank robbery, we don't want it. Concept and reality are often a long ways apart, particularly in the minds of those who want to begin to dismantle Social Security.
Health care
Kobach pushes the bounds of reason, claiming Moore has been "the worst" in Congress on medical malpractice. We've dealt with this issue time and again, so click the links if you want to hear how medical malpractice "reform" would do little or nothing to solve health care costs.
Kobach also claims that there is no proof that Moore's plan to let Medicare negotiate for bulk discounts on pharmaceuticals will work. It works for the private sector, the Veterans Administration and the Defense Department, why wouldn't it work for Medicare? Even the American Medical Association thinks it would work.
National Security
After attacking Moore for a vote on the intelligence budget, Kobach says he wants to disclose "only the overall budget amount and nothing more" -- but that is exactly what the vote Kobach cites did! As we have previously reported, it only disclosed the total intelligence budget. Kobach has made so many outrageous claims that he is starting to lose track of reality.
Kobach again cites the "11 suspected terrorists" caught by NSEERS -- a claim that the 9/11 Commission staff already debunked.
Kobach's ties to extremists
Kobach trots out the supposed Sierra Club, LCV, and Planned Parenthood ties to John Tanton, despite knowing full well that those connections are virtually nonexistent -- particularly compared with Kobach's own ties to John Tanton, Larry Pratt, and their respective organizations. It is all here.
Immigration
Regarding the lawsuit he filed for FAIR, Kobach once again forgets about Google and now tries to push off the 2,000 figure onto The Kansas City Star, even though it was a letter from Kobach himself in the Star that first started the "2,000 illegal aliens" figure.
And after an exchange where Kobach accuses Moore of "utterly lying" -- (Christmas gift idea for Kris: a thesaurus so he can find a word other than "utterly") -- we learn that -- in Kobach's mind -- pretty much any immigration vote that doesn't seal the border is a vote for amnesty.From letter to the Star by Kris Kobach, May 27, 2004:
It is estimated that 2,000 illegal aliens will take advantage of this law, costing Kansas taxpayers more than $15 million."
Stem cells
Finally, there is a discussion of stem cell research, where Kobach seems to come out against any form of embryonic stem cell research and claims there are not enough embryos frozen at invitro fertilization clinics to find cures. Yet on October 7, the Republican Mainstream Partnership director wrote to The Hill and said that 400,000 embryos are created at IVF clinics every year. Compare that to the 19 cell lines touted by the President as more than sufficient.
Wrap-up
Overall, we didn't think either candidate landed a knockout blow. Moore was effective, but not spectacular against the fast-talking former college debater. Neither one had a gaffe or moment that stands out that could be used in TV ads, and at this point, with this type of race, that's all that these debates are really good for.
Update 4:31 p.m.: In reference to a post on a Phog.net message board (yes, we will admit we read it), we never said we thought the debate was a draw. We think Moore won, largely because he came across as more reasonable than Kobach in both words and overall manner. Moore had a steady presence, while Kobach seemed manic.
Kobach needed to demonstrate to voters why Moore should be fired and he didn't do it. His attacks were ones that have been heard in this district for years and largely discounted by voters. Plus, Kobach likely turned off a lot of swing voters (i.e. independent and Republican women) with his manner and would have turned off more if they could have followed what he was saying more than half the time. Add in the multiple Kobach distortions and faulty assertions we detail above and Kobach's position weakens further.
So, it wasn't a draw, but we still insist that neither candidate landed a "knockout blow" and his performance was certainly not effective enough for Kobach to be boasting on 1510 yesterday about cleaning Moore's clock or some other such nonsense.
Also, Jayhawkmom rules.
